working with matsui 301 w

[candleghost]

hey there, i have a real rag-tag setup and ive been trying to print patches on thick cotton canvas (white on black) with really inconsistent results. im pretty new to screen printing and i feel a bit lost as to what the main issue might be. when the ink arrived it was super super thick, almost like cake frosting. i have 110 mesh screens and the ink would barely make it through, i was getting really spotty coverage and the ink would start drying almost immediately. to solve this i got a hold of some of matsui's printgen mg retarder. it helped somewhat although it was hard to figure out the right ratio to add. the ink is still on the thick side, but i do get better coverage. here and there for errors i thought doing a second pass would be the answer, but even using moderate to light pressure seems to force way too much ink through and i lose all definition. and i still cant even get 5 or 10 prints out without error or the screen getting clogged.

im just really at a loss here. i try to be thorough in my research and technique, although limited as far as equipment goes. its frustrating to blow through material with such shaky results. if you have any ideas on how i can track down the issue and work towards a solution i would greatly appreciate it. i'd really like to figure this out, even if it means moving to a different ink. i hear matsui cant be difficult to work with but it does give an excellent rubber feel when it does work.

thanks for your time!

ps: i you'd like to check out any pics of whats going on i can always snap a few. thanks again.

[Catspit Productions]

I have never worked with this ink as of yet. I use all plastisol inks in my own shop but if you post some pictures and explain a bit more maybe we can get Ryonet to help out as they sell Matsui inks.

But in my own experience with water based inks normally they are thinner rather than thicker and a higher mesh count is used as opposed to when working with plastisol inks. Plastisol inks tend to be thicker although some may be very thin especially when additives are used. But in general a water based ink like paste seems wrong to me.

Perhaps the ink was semi hardened during shipping?

[candleghost]

sorry for the delayed response. i had a short stay in the hospital recently and i'm in the process of recovering. i just wanted to stop by and let you know that i will be following up on the thread soon and thank you for your reply.

cheers.

[Catspit Productions]

No problem but I can tell you Ryonet won't help out. I asked them to but they will not respond. Stay tuned for big news in August! And I eagerly await your follow up on this. I'd love to hear what you have discovered.

Get well soon. Best wishes!

[Leadfoot]

Get better soon! I started with Matsui 301 inks from Ryonet but have since switched to plastisol. The 301 white was the thickest of all the colors mainly because it needed to have a nice opaque finish. It was challenging to work with but I mixed it very well and then added printgen mg to it...I suggest mixing the mg in to smaller batches as needed in a separate container. I loved the easy clean up of the 301 inks but the thickness of the white and eventual drying was just too much for me which is partly why I switched. Good luck and be sure to post your findings!

[candleghost]

thank you for the well wishes!

here are a few examples of the problems ive been having, as you can see im getting a lack of coverage in this pic.
http://i45.tinypic.com/keb6vn.jpg

this is a pic of a second or third print, increasingly poor coverage with the drying, as was mentioned in another post.
http://i50.tinypic.com/34614kz.jpg

when i do a second pass you can see that too much ink is being forced through and im losing detail.
http://i49.tinypic.com/28jbhua.jpg

its a shame this ink seems to have a rep for not being easy to work with. as far as water based opaque whites does anyone have other suggestions?

[Catspit Productions]

Of course, I appreciate your posting on my forum!

It looks like perhaps you could use a slightly more open mesh count. Or try using a little more pressure if the mesh is open enough already. And I would use a 65 or 70 durometer squeegee here. It appears as if the material you are printing is a bit porous or rough. So you have to have some pressure to get the ink to fill the knit a decent amount.

Now if the mesh is more open then you can use a harder squeegee with less pressure. If it’s a higher mesh count use the same squeegee maybe 70 durometer and use more pressure on the print stroke.

Also using multiple flood passes before you set the screen down and to your print stroke or strokes could help out some too. Just don’t use too much pressure when flooding as it will push too much ink through the mesh prematurely. That could cause bleeding out in the stencil when it prints.

You basically have to find a happy medium between ink thickness, mesh count, squeegee and printing pressures that will give the best results for the design and material you are printing. You could also try printing this with some ink retarder to slow drying time.

Oh and make sure you have some off contact. Less is better than more just try to make it level all the way across the pallet. Use a nice straight, sharp squeegee too. Don't forget to back flood between prints.

Let me know if that helps out any. Good luck! Thanks for posting the links for the images. You may also attach them to your posts by clicking the upload attachment tab under the text area when posting.

[candleghost]

thank you for the tips, i really appreciate it.

ill try to implement the suggestions over the next week or so and see if that gets me where i need to be.

ill report back with my findings.

[Catspit Productions]

No problem, my pleasure to help out.

We all look forward to hearing about your progress.